Eire
Christian Democratic Party
Pope St. John Paul II
Posts: 65
Nation in Right to Life: The Catholic State of Eire
|
Post by Eire on May 5, 2020 18:12:10 GMT -5
OMNIBUS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT ACT PROPOSITION 2 (JUNE 2020 ELECTION) Ballot Question At the June 2020 election, the citizens of Right to Life shall be asked: "Shall Right to Life adopt the Omnibus Constitutional Amendment Act, establishing a Congress with a Citizens' Assembly acting as the lower house and with the Senate acting as the upper house?"
If the citizenry votes in the affirmative and if the Founder grants his assent to this Act, as prescribed in the Constitution's amendment procedures, the following changes to the Constitution shall be adopted. Amendment to Article IIIArticle III of the Constitution shall be struck and replaced with the following: Article III: The Legislative Branch
1. The legislative authority of Right to Life shall be vested in the Congress, which shall have two houses. The lower house shall be called the Citizens' Assembly (or Assembly), and the upper house shall be called the Senate. 2. The Congress shall have the power to make laws, not inconsistent with this Constitution, on all matters concerning the governance of Right to Life. 3. The Assembly shall be composed of all citizens, including senators. 4. The Senate shall be composed of senators, elected in accordance with this Constitution and the laws of Right to Life. All senators shall be citizens, and no one shall serve simultaneously as the President and a senator. 5. Whenever a seat in the Senate is vacant, the President shall appoint a citizen to fill that vacancy for the remainder of the term of office. 6. Unless otherwise required by this Constitution, every decision in the Assembly shall be made by a simple majority vote, and every decision in the Senate shall be made by a majority of the whole number of senators (including absences and vacancies). 7. Each house shall determine its own rules and procedures, not inconsistent with this Constitution. 8. The Assembly's rules and procedures shall provide for a voting period of at least three days on all matters. 9. The presiding officer of the Assembly shall be called the Speaker. The Assembly shall elect the Speaker using a method previously established by law; it may remove the Speaker at any time and for any reason; and its rules and procedures shall provide for one or more deputy speakers, who shall preside when the Speaker is absent or when the speakership is vacant. 10. The senators shall be equal in status, and the Senate's rules and procedures shall regulate how they conduct their duties. 11. During the voting period of a senatorial or presidential election, the Congress shall be out of session, and all pending bills and other motions shall expire. When the election ends, a new session of the Congress shall begin. 12. All bills shall originate in the Senate. When the Senate passes a bill, it shall send the bill to the Assembly. Then, the Assembly shall consider the bill and either pass or reject it. After both houses have passed the bill, it shall be presented to the Founder for his assent. 13. Before it becomes a law, every bill passed by the Congress shall be presented to the Founder for his assent. If the Founder grants his assent, he shall sign the bill into law. If the Founder withholds his assent, he shall veto the bill. The Congress shall not have the power to override the Founder's veto. 14. When a bill is presented to the Founder for his assent, he may refer the bill to the High Court for an opinion on its constitutionality. All justices shall participate, and the High Court shall return a decision to the Founder in a timely manner. If the High Court returns a decision that the bill is constitutional, the Founder shall either sign the bill into law or veto it. If the High Court returns a decision that the bill is unconstitutional, the Founder shall veto the bill. 15. By law, the Congress shall establish executive ministries, which shall be directly accountable to the President. By law, it may establish executive commissions, whose members shall enjoy autonomy within the executive branch. 16. The Assembly shall have the power, by a simple two-thirds vote, to remove any senator, any member of the executive branch, or any member of the judicial branch. Anyone removed under this section shall be disqualified to hold office (as a senator, a member of the executive branch, or a member of the judicial branch) for fourteen days. The administrative branch shall be immune from the Assembly's power of removal. Amendment to Article IV, Section 14 Article IV, Section 14, of the Constitution shall be struck and replaced with the following:
14. Following each senatorial election, the President shall deliver an address to the Congress on the state of the region. In this address, he should outline his accomplishments and goals, evaluate the performance of the officials whom he appoints, and recommend to the Congress such legislative measures as he deems appropriate. Amendment to Article VII Article VII of the Constitution shall be struck and replaced with the following:
Article VII: Senatorial Elections 1. Senatorial elections shall begin on the fifteenth day of the months of January, April, July, and October. There shall be seven days of nominations followed by three days of voting. 2. Senatorial elections shall take place publicly on the regional forums. Subject to such reasonable restrictions that the laws may impose, all citizens shall have the right to vote. 3. The number of senators and the method of their election shall be determined by law. However, no law altering the number of senators shall become effective until the senatorial election following the law's enactment. 4. The President shall break any ties that might occur in a senatorial election. Deletion of Other Provisions Article VIII, Section 2, of the Constitution shall be struck, and other sections shall be renumbered accordingly.
Article X of the Constitution (Transitional Provisions) shall be struck.
Replacement of "Senate" with "Congress" The word "Congress" shall replace the word "Senate" in the following sections of the Constitution:
Article IV, Section 5
Article IV, Section 9
Article V, Section 6
Article VI, Section 4
Article VI, Section 9
Addendum All senators currently serving in the Senate shall be allowed to continue in the Senate until the completion of their term, notwithstanding any provision of the Constitution to the contrary.
|
|
|
Post by United Massachusetts on May 5, 2020 18:45:42 GMT -5
Since these bills actually have to come up at the next election, I think we should make an omnibus amendment, including the establishment of the Citizen's Assembly.
|
|
Eire
Christian Democratic Party
Pope St. John Paul II
Posts: 65
Nation in Right to Life: The Catholic State of Eire
|
Post by Eire on May 5, 2020 19:05:01 GMT -5
I suppose that could be done. Furthermore, I know you said we should abolish the Senate and replace it with a Citizens Assembly, but how about keeping the Senate as an upper house, with the Citizens Assembly being the lower house?
|
|
|
Post by Culture of Life on May 5, 2020 21:32:49 GMT -5
Since these bills actually have to come up at the next election, I think we should make an omnibus amendment, including the establishment of the Citizen's Assembly. I agree that an omnibus amendment should be put forward -- one proposal, written by the Senate, delivered to the electorate as a package deal. If the Senate runs into any issues where it wishes to consult residents, there can be a public opinion poll on the region's main page. I suppose that could be done. Furthermore, I know you said we should abolish the Senate and replace it with a Citizens Assembly, but how about keeping the Senate as an upper house, with the Citizens Assembly being the lower house? Some regions, such as Wintreath and the UK-roleplay regions, have bicameral legislatures. We've never tried it here. In Right to Life, how do you envision that such a legislature would function? I'm very interested in hearing the specifics of your idea.
|
|
|
Post by United Massachusetts on May 5, 2020 22:12:51 GMT -5
I suppose that could be done. Furthermore, I know you said we should abolish the Senate and replace it with a Citizens Assembly, but how about keeping the Senate as an upper house, with the Citizens Assembly being the lower house? Some regions, such as Wintreath and the UK-roleplay regions, have bicameral legislatures. We've never tried it here. In Right to Life, how do you envision that such a legislature would function? I'm very interested in hearing the specifics of your idea. I'm not sure a bicameral legislature is wise. Wouldn't it add just another layer of bureaucracy? Then again, I can definitely see the case for somehow preventing citizens from proposing poorly-written laws. I wonder if we had a system akin to Greece in Solon's time: - Laws may only be proposed by elected Senators
- Once proposed by a Senator, a law is then put forth before the Citizens Assembly for a vote
- Should it pass, the Executive & Administrative will either sign or veto. An Executive veto can be overridden, while an Administrative veto is final
|
|
Eire
Christian Democratic Party
Pope St. John Paul II
Posts: 65
Nation in Right to Life: The Catholic State of Eire
|
Post by Eire on May 6, 2020 6:40:00 GMT -5
Some regions, such as Wintreath and the UK-roleplay regions, have bicameral legislatures. We've never tried it here. In Right to Life, how do you envision that such a legislature would function? I'm very interested in hearing the specifics of your idea. I'm not sure a bicameral legislature is wise. Wouldn't it add just another layer of bureaucracy? Then again, I can definitely see the case for somehow preventing citizens from proposing poorly-written laws. I wonder if we had a system akin to Greece in Solon's time: - Laws may only be proposed by elected Senators
- Once proposed by a Senator, a law is then put forth before the Citizens Assembly for a vote
- Should it pass, the Executive & Administrative will either sign or veto. An Executive veto can be overridden, while an Administrative veto is final
I agree with that. I just don't want us to rip out the Senate entirely, but we can certainly add the Citizens Assembly to allow more participation from citizens.
|
|
|
Post by Culture of Life on May 7, 2020 0:40:29 GMT -5
I'm not sure a bicameral legislature is wise. Wouldn't it add just another layer of bureaucracy? Then again, I can definitely see the case for somehow preventing citizens from proposing poorly-written laws. I wonder if we had a system akin to Greece in Solon's time: - Laws may only be proposed by elected Senators
- Once proposed by a Senator, a law is then put forth before the Citizens Assembly for a vote
- Should it pass, the Executive & Administrative will either sign or veto. An Executive veto can be overridden, while an Administrative veto is final
I agree with that. I just don't want us to rip out the Senate entirely, but we can certainly add the Citizens Assembly to allow more participation from citizens. When I read both of your posts, I had two ideas in mind. One possibility: Have a unicameral legislature consisting of all citizens, but enact procedural rules (not part of the Constitution) that give substantial power to parliamentary leaders, who would control the legislative agenda -- e.g., a speaker, a majority leader, and a minority leader. A second possibility: Have a bicameral legislature, but we would need to construct it so that it's sustainable. For example: - We could have a citizens' assembly and a three-member senate, composed of the president (or viceroy) and two senators elected by WA residents.
- The citizens' assembly would initiate all legislation. Anything it passed would go to the senate.
- Then, the senate could pass the same bill or else block the bill, returning it to the citizens' assembly with objections and proposed revisions.
- The citizens' assembly would have three options: (1) accept the senate's revisions (simple majority vote), (2) decline the senate's revisions and re-pass the bill in its original form (two-thirds vote), or (3) abandon the bill entirely (and start over).
|
|
Eire
Christian Democratic Party
Pope St. John Paul II
Posts: 65
Nation in Right to Life: The Catholic State of Eire
|
Post by Eire on May 7, 2020 5:23:00 GMT -5
I agree with the second proposal!
|
|
Phydios
Member
Posts: 16
Nation in Right to Life: Phydios
|
Post by Phydios on May 7, 2020 8:35:23 GMT -5
We could certainly try the bicameral proposal and see how well it works out. Though I'm not sure if adding more bureaucracy to the region is a good idea.
|
|
|
Post by United Massachusetts on May 7, 2020 11:09:52 GMT -5
I agree with that. I just don't want us to rip out the Senate entirely, but we can certainly add the Citizens Assembly to allow more participation from citizens. When I read both of your posts, I had two ideas in mind. One possibility: Have a unicameral legislature consisting of all citizens, but enact procedural rules (not part of the Constitution) that give substantial power to parliamentary leaders, who would control the legislative agenda -- e.g., a speaker, a majority leader, and a minority leader. A second possibility: Have a bicameral legislature, but we would need to construct it so that it's sustainable. For example: - We could have a citizens' assembly and a three-member senate, composed of the president (or viceroy) and two senators elected by WA residents.
- The citizens' assembly would initiate all legislation. Anything it passed would go to the senate.
- Then, the senate could pass the same bill or else block the bill, returning it to the citizens' assembly with objections and proposed revisions.
- The citizens' assembly would have three options: (1) accept the senate's revisions (simple majority vote), (2) decline the senate's revisions and re-pass the bill in its original form (two-thirds vote), or (3) abandon the bill entirely (and start over).
I'm not keen on the second possibility, for a few reasons: - It is, in my view, highly likely that bills which go through the Citizen's Assembly once would need to be edited by the Senate, mostly just for formatting reasons. Then we're really creating a bureaucracy if bills are crafted in the Citizen's Assembly and then brought to the Senate then back to the Citizen's Assembly -- I wager most votes would need two runs through the citizens Assembly. Where possible, I want to minimize the number of times the Citizen's Assembly has to vote on stuff.
- I'd prefer to minimize, where possible, the number of votes a Citizen's Assembly would have to conduct under a bicameral system, because I imagine those votes would be clunkier and somewhat more difficult.
- The Citizen's Assembly final vote, with the three options you presented could make some interesting, seemingly anti-democratic results. For instance, consider this election, an example of a case where (because no other option has reached its requisite threshold) the bill would have to be abandoned entirely, despite nobody wanting that. The only way to prevent this scenario would be to split the vote in the Citizen's Assembly into two, which seems foundationally unacceptable:
- Accept Senate Revisions: 48% (missed simple majority)
- Pass without Senate Revisions: 52% (missed 67% threshold)
- Abandon Bill entirely: 0% (WINNER)
|
|
Eire
Christian Democratic Party
Pope St. John Paul II
Posts: 65
Nation in Right to Life: The Catholic State of Eire
|
Post by Eire on May 7, 2020 14:50:44 GMT -5
In this case to cut on bureaucracy and prevent bills having to go back and forth from assembly to senate all the time, how about in the citizens assembly we have assigned tribunes, who propose laws to the senate. Then the senate can vote on it, format the proposal into bill form and then send it back to the entire citizens assembly who vote on it. This way it is one vote in the senate for the proposed law and one vote in the assembly, the vote in the assembly being on the formatted senate bill
The system being:
Tribune brings a general proposal to be made law > if senate votes for it then it fleshes it out into a bill > bill is sent to the citizens assembly to be voted on.
|
|
|
Post by Culture of Life on May 7, 2020 15:05:13 GMT -5
I wasn't keen on the idea of a bicameral legislature either. Then, I considered how difficult it would be for a citizens' assembly to vote individually on each and every presidential nomination. I'm also not keen on the idea of having two tiers of assembly members: first-class citizens and second-class citizens. Here's something I quickly drafted. It's incomplete, and it says nothing about how senators would be elected. In other parts of the Constitution, the Senate would retain its current powers: advising and consenting to presidential nominations; treaties; declarations of war; and pardons, reprieves, and commutations. I loosely had something like the Massachusetts Governor's Council in mind.
|
|
|
Post by stellonia on May 8, 2020 22:10:17 GMT -5
In my opinion, the Constitution should provide for an elected official who would function as a conduit between the Assembly and the Senate. Such a person would explain to each body the views and actions of the other body and serve as a mediator in the event of a disagreement between the two bodies.
Additionally, the Constitution should provide for the Senate to vote for a bill first and for the Assembly to vote second should that bill originate in the Senate.
|
|
Eire
Christian Democratic Party
Pope St. John Paul II
Posts: 65
Nation in Right to Life: The Catholic State of Eire
|
Post by Eire on May 9, 2020 7:25:42 GMT -5
Culture of Life I put your recommendations in the OP, with the exception to the fourth section. I changed it from not allowing the President to hold a Senate seat to allowing it.
|
|
|
Post by Culture of Life on May 9, 2020 14:08:04 GMT -5
In my opinion, the Constitution should provide for an elected official who would function as a conduit between the Assembly and the Senate. Such a person would explain to each body the views and actions of the other body and serve as a mediator in the event of a disagreement between the two bodies. Given that senators would serve simultaneously as assemblymen, I thought that maybe they could do it on their own. This is certainly a question that Eire, UMass, and Phydios should consider. Should there be a special official to coordinate legislation between the houses; should that duty be informally carried out by the senators; should the speaker carry out the duty (as the Assembly's leading member); or could the houses, through their rules and procedures, provide a mechanism for coordination (e.g., a conference committee)? Additionally, the Constitution should provide for the Senate to vote for a bill first and for the Assembly to vote second should that bill originate in the Senate. I'd fully support symmetric bicameralism (instead of asymmetric bicameralism) if that's what the region wants. The Constitution could say something like this: - The Assembly and the Senate shall have equal legislative powers, and no bill shall become a law, nor shall any bill be presented to the Founder for his assent, unless and until both houses have passed the same bill in identical form.
Culture of Life I put your recommendations in the OP, with the exception to the fourth section. I changed it from not allowing the President to hold a Senate seat to allowing it. If the Senate is supposed to be a check on the executive branch -- through votes on presidential nominations, treaties, pardons, etc. -- why should the president, in your opinion, be able to serve in the Senate? Wouldn't that limit the Senate's ability to monitor him and second-guess his decisions?
|
|
Eire
Christian Democratic Party
Pope St. John Paul II
Posts: 65
Nation in Right to Life: The Catholic State of Eire
|
Post by Eire on May 9, 2020 15:07:16 GMT -5
The reason for allowing the President to serve as a Senator is to allow UM to continue to serve as both without him being in violation of the constitution. Otherwise he will need to give up one or the other. I also do not think that we need checks and balances, the executive and legislative can be intertwined, like in a parliamentary system.
|
|
Phydios
Member
Posts: 16
Nation in Right to Life: Phydios
|
Post by Phydios on May 9, 2020 18:51:31 GMT -5
The reason for allowing the President to serve as a Senator is to allow UM to continue to serve as both without him being in violation of the constitution. Otherwise he will need to give up one or the other. I also do not think that we need checks and balances, the executive and legislative can be intertwined, like in a parliamentary system. Both of you have valid points. Why not pass a bill that specifically exempts UM from being limited to only one of the offices, until the next scheduled presidential election? That allows us to accommodate the current political situation in the region while still preserving the Senate as a check on the President's power. We're already in a gray area anyway- we might as well formalize it.
|
|
Eire
Christian Democratic Party
Pope St. John Paul II
Posts: 65
Nation in Right to Life: The Catholic State of Eire
|
Post by Eire on May 10, 2020 7:01:29 GMT -5
Thats a good idea Phydios, I'll change the fourth section to its original text, we can pass a law later ensuring UM doesn't have to give up his positions.
|
|
|
Post by Culture of Life on May 10, 2020 15:02:57 GMT -5
Thats a good idea Phydios, I'll change the fourth section to its original text, we can pass a law later ensuring UM doesn't have to give up his positions. I agree. Having that as an addendum seems fine to me. Since it'd be a private bill, I wouldn't archive it in the regional law library.
|
|
Eire
Christian Democratic Party
Pope St. John Paul II
Posts: 65
Nation in Right to Life: The Catholic State of Eire
|
Post by Eire on May 11, 2020 17:27:57 GMT -5
So, unless if anyone wants to add anything further, shall I move the motion to a vote?
|
|